Title dispute: sharing the Temple Mount

Date

08/29/2026

Hosted By

Travis K. Kircher, Les Sillars

Title dispute

0:00

WORLD Radio - Title dispute

Jews, Muslims, and Christians try to co-exist in the shadow of the Temple Mount—the most contested piece of real estate in the world

Three observant Jews pray facedown toward the Muslim Dome of the Rock. The Dome of the Rock is positioned on the spot where Jews believe the Holy of Holies of the Jewish Temple was located. WORLD News Group / Photo by Travis K. Kircher

Editor's note: The following text is a transcript of a podcast story. To listen to the story, click on the arrow beneath the headline above.

LES SILLARS, HOST: From WORLD Radio, this is Doubletake. I’m Les Sillars.

It’s a Wednesday morning in September…and a Jewish yeshiva—a religious school—is holding an outdoor class in Jerusalem’s Old City.

ELIYAHU KATZ: They are discussing—they are discussing the position of the altar, where the altar should be. And they are renewing the study, the discussion around things that Jewish people have studied in theory for 2,000 years…

That’s 28-year-old Eliyahu Katz … an observant Jew from New York whose family immigrated to Israel when he was a child. Katz is giving WORLD’S Travis Kircher a tour. Travis, Eliyahu, and a handful of others are surrounded by at least a half-dozen armed Israeli police. Suddenly, four of the Jewish men stoop to do something that’s pretty controversial. They pray.

Concealed behind a wall on the eastern side of the site, the men lie face down on the stone ground. Some of them are in business suits. It’s not the praying itself that’s provocative. It’s where they’re doing it.

Today on Doubletake, Travis is going to take us to Israel for a behind-the-scenes look at the most contested piece of real estate in the world.

The Jews call it Har HaBayit—the Temple Mount. The former site of Solomon’s Temple, as well as the Second Jewish Temple. You know, the one where 12-year-old Christ confounded the religious teachers and later rode in on a donkey. It’s the place where Abraham grabbed hold of his knife to offer up Isaac, but God said, do not lay your hand on the boy.

Muslims call it something else…Haram al Sharif … the Noble Sanctuary. For the past 1300 years, it’s been the site of the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock. Muslims consider it the third holiest site after two other mosques: the Sacred Mosque in Mecca and the Mosque of the Prophet in Medina.

So it’s way more than just a contested patch of ground. More than half the world’s population find meaning and identity in things that have happened on this spot.

And especially for Christians and Jews, the barrier between heaven and earth seems thinner here. It’s where the past, the present, and the future swirl through the streets and echo across the stone walls. On this mount God has spoken, dreams have been dreamed, and blood has flowed like a river.

Here’s Travis.

TRAVIS KIRCHER: Mustafa Abu Sway is a Palestinian scholar and the deputy head of the Islamic Waqf Council…the group that oversees the Al Aqsa Mosque. He says it has…special properties.

MUSTAFA ABU SWAY: These three mosques are—they have—they are extra meritorious in the Islamic worldview and Islamic creed, which means that a prayer there is multiplied.

Officially…only Muslim prayers are allowed on the Temple Mount. Christian and Jewish prayers—spoken or unspoken—are prohibited. Those are strict rules from the Islamic Waqf Council—but the waqf doesn’t actually get to enforce the rules. Israel has had custody of all of Jerusalem since 1967…so that task falls to Israeli police, Katz tells me.

KATZ: The police has done a great job of separating us—separating the Jews and Muslims and allowing the Jews some semblance of a right to a religion.

Katz agreed to show me around the Temple Mount with a small group. Later today, we’re going again with a much larger group. They’ll be honoring the late conservative activist Charlie Kirk, so they plan to be a bit more…vocal. I ask Eliyahu if he thinks this will cause…problems…with Muslim worshippers.

KATZ: It’s hopefully going to be a normal day. Hopefully. The question around it…I don’t know. It depends on them.

Much blood has been spilled on this mountain. And not just in A-D 70, when the Romans sacked Jerusalem. Or during the murderous crusades of the Middle Ages. The conflict has continued…even to the modern era.

In 2017 dozens were injured during mass riots on the mount…after Israeli police installed metal detectors at the entrance of the Al Aqsa Mosque. Audio here from Euronews…

ANNOUNCER: For several days, there’ve been clashes as tensions remain high. After Tuesday’s evening prayers, as many as 50 people were reportedly injured, including a senior Muslim cleric. Friday’s shooting of two Israeli police officers by three Arab-Israeli gunmen, and in turn their deaths at the hands of Israeli security forces, was one of the most serious incidents in the area in years.

The Israeli government later reversed that decision and removed the metal detectors.

But why three-thousand years of strife and conflict over only about 35 acres in Jerusalem’s Old City? To answer that, we’ll need a quick history lesson. First…a look at the Jewish claim.

BRUCE WARE: I do think the very first passage of Scripture that relates to the temple—of course, there's no temple yet—but it is in Genesis 22…

Dr. Bruce Ware is a professor of Christian theology at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He says the Temple Mount is where God tested Abraham to see if he would be willing to sacrifice his son, Isaac. It’s also the location of the threshing floor King David bought from Araunah the Jebusite to offer a sacrifice, recorded in 2 Samuel 24. Later David wants to build a Temple there…but ultimately his son Solomon does so around the 10th century B.C.

WARE: So Solomon's temple, then, is the beginning of sacrifices for generations of Israelites with massive amounts of animals killed. It's almost hard to imagine the amount of blood, the amount of sound of the noise of animals being killed, and the smell of it all. I mean, it just would have been overwhelming...

The original Temple lasted about 400 years. But the Babylonians destroyed it around 586 B.C.

WARE: Jerusalem itself being besieged by Nebuchadnezzar and then destroyed. The walls, torn down, the temple destroyed. I mean, you realize the significance of Jerusalem as the place where God said He would dwell with His people. And now, because of their sin, they're in exile...

That exile lasted 70 years…until Cyrus, King of Persia, allowed the Jews to return…and to build the second Jewish Temple…in the days of Nehemiah and Ezra. The Bible records that many of the people cheered when its foundations were laid. But it was so inferior to Solomon’s Temple…that many of the older generation wept. That changed…when King Herod came to power.

WARE: He was a master builder. He did lots of building projects.

Herod launched a massive expansion of the Temple. The Jews saw Herod as a Roman sympathizer…if not an outright puppet of Caesar. As a result, many believe the Temple project was Herod’s attempt to win favor with the Jewish people.

Rabbi Yehudah Glick takes up the story from here.

YEHUDAH GLICK: One of his major projects, I would say, probably his most important project, was enlarging the size of the Temple Mount.

Glick is an advocate for expanded Jewish rights on the Temple Mount…a former representative of the right-leaning Likud Party in the Israeli Knesset…and a bit of a firebrand. In 2014 he survived an assassination attempt when was shot four times in the chest…the suspect calling him an enemy of Al Aqsa.

Glick says Herod focused on widening the Temple Mount in order to build a much bigger and more beautiful temple.

GLICK: One of his major projects, I would say, probably his most important project, was enlarging the size of the Temple Mount and building a much bigger and more beautiful temple on the mountain. And in order to do that, how do you widen a mountain? He actually built walls around and he filled it with, first, he made arches and he put the floor and he filled it with dirt underneath. So the Temple Mount was widened to the south, to the north and to the west.

The gospels record how the disciples marveled at the Second Temple. Of course, Jesus prophesied its destruction…declaring that not one stone would be left on another. That came true when the Romans sacked Jerusalem a few years later in A.D. 70. And utterly destroyed the Temple.

GLICK: That was actually the greatest of the catastrophe in Jewish history, when the people of Israel were sent to a 2000 year of exile.

About 60 years later…the Roman Emperor Hadrian banned all Jews from the province. He renamed it Syria Palestina and desecrated the site by building a temple to the pagan god Jupiter there. Historians believe that’s what led to the Bar Kokhba Jewish Revolt in A.D. 132—a last-ditch effort to retake the site. It failed. And so the Jews were scattered across the world in what came to be known as the diaspora. And the Jewish nation-state…came to an end.

Temporarily.

Back on the Temple Mount, we are still on the eastern side of the courtyard. Unofficially it’s the Jewish area. Here’s Katz again:

KATZ: As you can see, they keep the Muslim waqf separate from the Jewish prayers. When the two mix it gets problematic...

Both groups are kept to themselves, but Katz believes Muslims are still observing our every move.

KATZ: Usually they will have people watching and filming the Jewish people here, both to file complaints and to harass and to notice if someone strays from the group, in which case they will harass them…

Then, Katz points across the courtyard.

KATZ: Here, let’s see if they have one of their watchers here…maybe you can spot him. There’s usually someone in a chair over there…

He soon sees who he’s looking for.

KATZ: Oh you can see his chair right there, but he's not there. He's over there. You can see him walking over there. They have little vests.

Katz believes the Muslim is looking for religious symbols, prayer books, or Jewish political activity—any sort of provocation he can report to Israeli police. Those reported can be banned from the Temple Mount.

KATZ: For example, you standing here with a phone, if they were to realize that you were a journalist…

KIRCHER: I'm probably the most provocative one here, right?

KATZ: Yes. You would probably—they would probably flip. They would say, "An American journalist!" Talking about them -- that would be a provocation.

And yet off in the distance …

KATZ: And there you go. Children—teenagers—playing soccer on the holiest site for the Jewish people on the northern part of the temple mount…

There’s a Muslim boys’ school on this site. The students are enjoying recess while we are escorted by Israeli police. I soon learn that the police are there not just to protect us from the Muslims…but to protect Muslim holy sites…from us.

But what is Haram-al-Sharif—the noble sanctuary? And what claim do Muslims have to the site? To answer that, we’ll have to go back about 1,300 years…

It’s A.D. 570…and a new religion is about to emerge. Muhammad—Islam’s most revered prophet—is born in Mecca. About 40 years later he’s praying in a cave and claims he’s visited by the angel Gabriel—or Jibril. Jibril gives Muhammad what he describes…as his first revelation from God. From then on…Muhammad teaches the core tenants of Islam: the idea that God is one…and that all are called to complete submission to Allah.

Chapter 17 of the Koran tells a story about a supernatural journey Muslims believe Muhammad took to Jerusalem. After the death of Muhammad’s wife and uncle, the angel Jibril appears to the 52-year old prophet. The year is about A.D. 621… Audio here from Pondering Islam.

PONDERING ISLAM: Angel Jibril then took the Prophet by hand and led him to a white, winged horse called Bur’aq. The prophet mounted Bur’aq and together they traveled by night to the farthest mosque in Jerusalem. When they arrived in Jerusalem, the prophet was led to Al Aqsa Mosque. Here the prophet met with other prophets, including prophet Abraham, prophet Musa, prophet Jesus, and many others.

Abu Sway of the Waqf Council says it may surprise some to hear the name Jesus—Isa in Arabic—among the names of Islam’s prophets. But he insists that Islam, Judaism, and Christianity revere many of the same names.

SWAY: Prophet Muhammad in Islam is the seal of the prophets. But we believe in a linear history of prophethood. So we do believe in the prophethood of prophet Noah, for example, prophet Moses, prophet Abraham before Jesus Christ, peace be upon him. We believe in him. We love him. You know, he is special. He is the word of god to Mary in the Koran, peace be upon him.

But they don’t see Jesus as the divine Son of God who gave His life for the sin of mankind. In fact, Muslims don’t believe Jesus died at all.

SWAY: The Quran says that it appeared to them as if he were crucified, but he was neither killed nor crucified, and God raised him unto him…

According to the Koran…during Muhammad’s meeting with these…prophets…he leads them in prayer. Pondering Islam again picks up the story…

PONDERING ISLAM: After this, Angel Jibril led the prophet to the heavens, where he met other prophets again, and where Allah gave the prophet the command to pray five times a day.

This purported second journey is referred to by Muslims as—their word—al Miraj. And Abu Sway says it’s this particular journey—the one from this mosque in Jerusalem to heaven—that makes the rock inside the Dome of the Rock so important.

SWAY: The highest point at Al Aqsa Mosque is that rock, and we believe that the Miraj took place, most probably from that rock…

Keep in mind: That’s the same rock where Jews believe Abraham prepared to sacrifice Isaac. Jews also say it’s the traditional location of the Holy of Holies—where the presence of God would dwell and where the high priest would annually make atonement for the sins of the people.

The Dome of the Rock was built around A.D. 685…with the Al Aqsa Mosque constructed about 20 years later…making the actual structures both about 1300 years old. Crusaders seized the site in A.D. 1099 and turned the buildings into a church and a palace. Christians held the site for nearly 90 years, until the sultan of Egypt took it back and restored the buildings to Islamic uses.

Both structures are still standing today.

SWAY: I consider myself very, very fortunate that I pray, that I teach at Al Aqsa mosque, that I meet all those wonderful people from around the world…

Abu Sway describes the interior of the Dome of the Rock as beautiful…with a chapter of the Koran displayed in a mosaic… the rock itself protected behind a wooden rail.

SWAY: It’s probably the oldest surviving structure of the Islamic architecture, of Islamic art…

Since the diaspora, persecution has dogged the Jews wherever they went. During the Middle Ages and the Crusades, anti-Semites falsely accused them of using the blood of Christian children in rituals … the “blood libel.” Later...they were expelled from England and France. Thousands of Jews were murdered...often strangled or burned alive...during the Spanish Inquisition.

But a remnant of Jews refused to be assimilated into the surrounding cultures … keeping their religion, customs, and language.

GLICK: Three times a day, we prayed and we faced Jerusalem…every single time we eat food and we say grace after a meal, we mention our longing to Zion. Every single synagogue in Israel in the world is built facing Jerusalem, and we've actually, I would say, we've been rehearsing for 2000 years.

They were still waiting for the Temple to be rebuilt in the early 20th century…when the Ottoman Empire fell in the wake of World War I. That’s when the British Empire claimed control of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount under the British Mandate. But the worst was yet to come…

AUDIO: [HITLER]

Roughly 6 million Jews were exterminated under Adolf Hitler and Germany’s Third Reich. That’s roughly two-thirds of the entire European Jewish population.

For many…that was the last straw. And two words became the rallying cry of surviving Jews across the world: Never Again.

WARE: They realized if they were going to ever have safety as a people, they needed their own land. It really took the Holocaust to convince them they had to be there again.

By then Theodor Herzl had already founded the Zionist movement in the closing years of the 19th century. At its core, the Zionist movement says the only way the Jewish people can flourish and escape persecution is by living in their own nation state. In November 1947…in the wake of the Holocaust…the United Nations voted to partition Palestine into separate Jewish and Arab states. Then President Harry S. Truman described the difficulties…

TRUMAN: You can’t move five or six million people out of a country and fill it up with five or six million more and expect both sets of ‘em to be pleased. We had all sorts of objects to everything that was done. Something had to be done.

So in May of 1948…when Zionist leader David Ben Gurion declared the sovereign nation of Israel…the United States stood firmly behind the Jewish state.

NEWSREEL: With United States recognition, the new Jewish state is launched and Zionist leader Abba Hillel Silver is congratulated by Soviet delegate Gromyko.

From that time forward…more than 3 million Jews from all over the world have immigrated into Israel in a process referred to as Aliyah…or the ascension. I heard a wide range of accents during my five weeks in Israel. From Australia …

MEYERS: I live here in Tel Aviv…I moved here about four years ago.

To American…

AVRAHAM: Originally from Chicago. I immigrated to Israel 30 years ago.

And Russian…

POGORELSKY: I am Mordechai Pogorelsky. Nice to meet you!

While in Tel Aviv, I ran into Jack Maurer, a resident of Manchester who was visiting family. At the time…he was still reeling from an October attack on a synagogue in his hometown that left three dead.

JACK MAURER: We knew it was going to happen. Not that particular incident. But you could see the hatred that’s been building up from the media against Jewish people. And it’s pure anti-Semitism. You know, they say, “We’re not against Jews. We’re anti-Zionist.” That’s nonsense.

Since this interview…Maurer has permanently relocated to Israel. He’s not the only one. Katz says when he was eight, anti-Semitism convinced his own family it was time to immigrate…from New York.

KATZ: Just to quote my father, because he would talk about this a lot, after 911 people would see a visibly Jewish person, they would cross the street to spit on him. And this is 20 years ago, and he realized that it just wasn't the place for him anymore, and that there is one place in the world that is safe for Jews.

Still others make Aliyah for reasons beyond persecution…they believe they’re on the forefront of historic—even prophetic—events. I met Doron Ben Avraham at the Western Wall:

AVRAHAM: It's the most exciting event happening in our day. It's the return of the exiles from the four corners of the earth. It's an amazing thing. It's like, Would I rather watch the sporting event on the TV or actually go to the stadium? And here I am! I have a front row seat, especially in Jerusalem.

Rabbi Glick believes it represents the fulfillment of prophecy in the Jewish Tanach…or Old Testament. And he believes it’s a call for Jews not just to return to Israel…but to the Temple Mount itself.

GLICK: This is a call from Isaiah! It's a call from Zachariah! It's a call from Micah! Come and Let's fulfill the Zionist movement—the global Zionist movement, the universal Zionist movement, the movement that announces the mountain as the house of prayer for all nations. This is our mission! It's Zionism next generation!

In a moment…a look at just how his call to action…is being received.

Back in September…an air raid siren interrupts a demonstration outside Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Jerusalem home. Protesters were there to advocate for the release of hostages who, at the time, were still being held by the terror group Hamas. Since its founding in 1948…the state of Israel has always had to fight for its own survival.

NEWSREEL: For the third time since its birth as an independent state, Israel is embroiled in a war with the Arab nations that surround it. Her forces are outnumbered two-to-one…

Less than 24 hours after Israel declared independence, it faced war and invasion from Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq. Against all odds, the fledgling nation defeated its enemies in what became known as Israel’s War of Independence. Israel and Egypt squared off again in 1956 over the Suez Canal.

Then in June of 1967…tensions were rising between Israel and Egypt over the closure of maritime passageways…particularly the Straits of the Tiran…

NEWSREEL: Premier Levi Eshkol says Israel has no intention of attacking its Arab neighbors, calling for a mutual reduction of Arab-Israeli forces massed along the border…

Israel feared a three-pronged attack from Egypt, Syria, and Jordan … and Israeli officials worried that the country might not survive it. “Never Again,” said Israel … it struck first.

NEWSREEL: The tension in the Middle East over the Gulf of Aqaba blockade develops into full-scale war…

Israel’s armies captured the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, as well as the Golan Heights. More importantly…it seized East Jerusalem…including the Temple Mount…as well as the Western Wall…the remnant of a retaining wall that surrounded the second Temple in Jesus’ lifetime. A video produced by Israel Defense Forces commemorates the day.

IDF VIDEO: [Soldier speaking Hebrew]

Speaking there…an Israeli soldier reports that the Temple Mount…is now in Israeli hands.

For the first time in 2,000 years…the site of the Temple Mount was under Jewish control. Israeli leaders now faced a pivotal choice. What would Israel do with the property? What would happen to the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock? Would they remain in place? Or would Israel do what so many practicing Jews secretly hoped…attempt to build a THIRD Jewish Temple?

The answer came from then-Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Dayan. After consulting leading Muslim scholars, Dayan chose a compromise that frustrates both Jews and Muslims to this day. Dayan decided to defer what's called the "historical status quo." Here’s Abu SWAY:

SWAY: There is something called the historical status quo. And the historical status quo exists in the Old City of Jerusalem since the 19th century—since Ottoman time.

Before 1967, the Muslim waqf—through the Jordanian government—had control of the site…and stopped all Jews from visiting the site at all.

Now that Israel had control of the temple site, Defense Minister Dayan said the Muslim holy sites would remain in place. The Islamic waqf would continue to set the rules for what was and wasn’t permissible on Haram al Sharif…but the task of enforcing those rules would fall to Israeli police. And while Jews and Christians would still be prohibited from praying on the site…they would now be allowed to visit.

That’s not enough for Katz. Not by a longshot. He sees the entire arrangement as a colossal blunder by the Israeli government.

KATZ: People need to understand just what we gave up. This is like, this is literally, you know, as the Psalm said, this literally chopping off our right arm and saying, “Here, have our right arm! Just let us live here in peace!” And that hasn't really worked.

Many Muslims aren’t happy with the arrangement either. Abu Sway accuses the Israeli police of unnecessary interference.

SWAY: But they do interfere in the affairs of the Islamic waqf, even the maintenance. They stop us from doing maintenance, just to put pressure on the Aqsa administration.

U.S. Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee told me the ones who are really getting a raw deal in the situation … are the Israeli police.

HUCKABEE: Israel, to its credit, protects Muslim and Christian sites with the same level of fervor and tenacity with which they protect Jewish sites. I don't think they get enough credit for that, because they are as protective of the Al Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock, two very important sites in the Muslim faith, as they are to the Western Wall, or as they are to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher or the Garden Tomb, which are very special for Christian believers.

After about an hour, my Temple Mount tour with Katz is coming to a close. We’ve left the eastern—or unofficially Jewish—side of the courtyard. We’re moving toward the western side…which has a more heavily Muslim presence. Among those in our group, there are no more clandestine Jewish prayers hidden behind walls…but there is quiet singing.

On the western side of the courtyard…we finally come face-to-face with what Jews and Muslims agree is the holiest spot on the mountain…but for different reasons. Towering above us…at the top of roughly two-dozen stone steps…is the Dome of the Rock.

Katz enthusiastically points out where the wall and the main hallway of the original Temple were … culminating with the most sacred chamber of all…the Holy of Holies. God’s presence and the Ark of the Covenant were said to be on that very spot just a few meters in front of us…right where the Dome of the Rock is now.

KATZ: We are standing right on—as close as you can actually get—to the Holy of Holies, even on the Temple Mount, without entering what according to most Jewish opinions is an area so sacred that no one is supposed to be allowed in there except the high priest on Yom Kippur.

And it’s just as out-of-reach for us today. As a Jew and a Christian, Katz and I are forbidden to go any further. At least two Israeli police officers stand on the stone steps blocking our path. I ask Katz how it feels to be so close to Israel’s history…and yet so distant.

KATZ: It's amazing. This is a mix of feelings. Two-thousand years, Jews have tried to come up here...and here I am with the right not only to stand here, but with the right to pray. But on the other hand, it also hurts your heart, because I still don't have full rights here. I still can't pray fully here. And the Jewish people still cannot perform a third of the Jewish religion that is supposed to be performed on this specific spot.

Without an existing Temple…practicing Jews today believe they can’t offer the sacrifices outlined in the Torah. During Passover, they’re unable to eat the Passover lamb because it must be offered at the Temple. Certain tithes and pilgrimage offerings can’t be completed. Even aspects of Jewish religious government…like the convening of the Sanhedrin…are prohibited. It's true that Judaism has found ways to adapt to a life without a Temple. In some ways, they've replaced sacrifices with prayers and refocused the religion around the synagogue, rather than the Temple. But some practicing Jews say…that’s not ideal.

At the Western Wall…outside the Temple Mount…I met Ohad Damari…a practicing Jew who was offering penitent Selichot prayers ahead of Rash Hashanah, the Jewish new year. There were tears in his eyes as he spoke:

OHAD DAMARI: I was actually here last year, but this time it felt...I feel this place is not what it should be right now, in that see this wall now—it's not in its full glory. And I wish to be there on the day when I can see God's full glory here and fully built—the third Temple.

To be clear…most Jews don’t share Damari’s passion. An Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics survey published in 2021 found that 45 percent of Israeli Jews over the age of 20 identified as secular…with no religious beliefs. Only about 33 percent said they practiced traditional religious worship.

But many practicing Jewish organizations have been preparing for the restoration of a third Jewish Temple…without advocating for any change to the status of the Muslim holy sites. I visited the Temple Institute in Jerusalem…where I saw on display instruments and utensils ready for use in a future Temple. They included a golden incense altar and table of showbread. A priestly ephod woven with blue, purple, and scarlet thread contains a breastplate of gemstones. The Temple Institute claims—although I couldn’t verify—that all of the instruments were meticulously crafted according to the instructions God gave Moses in the Torah…specifically the book of Exodus.

Some Jews are content to quietly await the arrival of a third Temple. But not all.

A group of religious Jews called the Temple Mount Faithful tried to ascend Haram Al Sharif to lay the cornerstone for a third Jewish Temple. That sparked mass riots and Muslims began hurling rocks down on the Jewish worshippers at the Western Wall. Israeli police responded. Audio here from Al Jazeera:

AL JAZEERA - On Black Monday, the 8th of October, 1990, 20 Palestinians were killed according to the UN in the Al Aqsa Massacre.

This is important: At no time when I was in Israel did anyone advocate for violence against Jews or Muslims. No one called for the removal of any Muslim holy sites to make way for a third Jewish Temple. And while Jewish activists accused of violating the status quo on Haram al Sharif may face a temporary ban from the site…I heard no one call for physical violence against them.

For his part, Abu Sway says he does not consider people of the book—meaning Jews and Christians—to be his enemy. In fact he counts many of them as friends.

SWAY: The people of the book are not totally other in the Quran. When the Quran says, “And the food of the people of the book is lawful for you,” it means we share a meal, okay?

Some Muslims don’t share Abu Sway’s tolerance…as groups like the Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, Hezbollah, and Hamas demonstrate.

But despite his friendship with the people of the book, Abu Sway says one thing is nonnegotiable: the Muslim holy sites must be left alone.

SWAY: Again, what they believe is their business, okay? My business basically is, there is a mosque. It has been for 1,500 years as a mosque, and let’s not change the historical status quo.

Rabbi Glick believes it was a Temple long before it was ever a mosque…but says he too is motivated by peace. While he admits he pushes the envelope while advocating for increased access to pray on the Temple Mount…he says he’s never encouraged anyone to break the law. And he insists the Jews should be praying on the mount next to Muslims…not in place of them. He even goes as far as to say the Dome of the Rock…is a tribute to monotheism. Quick note: Like many Jews, Glick refers to the God of the Bible as “Hashem” instead of Yahweh.

GLICK: So when I come and I see that on the Temple Mount there's a building—whether I agree with the religion or not—there's a building which is here to announce one God, I can tell Isaiah, listen, Hashem had his ways to make sure your prophecy will be fulfilled!

However, Huckabee says he doesn’t think anyone should be holding their breath for a new Temple.

HUCKABEE: I don't anticipate that it's going to happen anytime soon. There would be a lot of things that would have to happen for it to take place.

But Jews hopeful for a third Temple are praying for the arrival of a new leader. Someone who could move mountains, so to speak.

During our Temple Mount tour at the start of the episode, I pulled aside one of the men who were secretly praying behind a wall. We’ll call him Abe.

ABE: Shalom! Hello to all of the people that are listening. I'm one of those Jews that come up to the Temple Mount...

Abe says for more than a year, police had been giving him and others permission to bow down and pray discreetly behind the wall. And he says he doesn’t want to pray alone.

ABE: This should be a good reason—a call to all Jews—to come up to the Temple Mount to pray and bow to Hashem and beg for the coming of the Messiah. Speedily in our days. Amen.

Did you catch that? He says he’s praying for the soon coming of…the Messiah.

The Messiah…or the anointed one…iswas promised throughout the Old Testament. The Prophet Isaiah foretells the coming of a descendant of King David…one who will rule justly and bring about universal peace. Other prophecies say he will regather the Jewish exiles. Many Jews believe he will supernaturally arrange the construction of the Third and final Jewish Temple…and usher in the End Times.

On the Eve of the Jewish holiday of Rosh Hashanah…I spoke with several practicing Jews about what they’re looking for in the Messiah.

AVRAHAM: The Messiah, the Son of David, comes and can rule the heavens and the earth here from Jerusalem and bring peace to the whole world. And the Temple Mount, the temple will be reestablished. We don't know how…

DAMARI: God will be revealed in some sort of way to the whole world. And everyone will know who God is. Every religion …

JONATHAN AMRAM: People can begin to live more harmoniously and unified with true, unconditional love, in almost a transformative, transcendental, really seeing-the-light-of-nirvana kind of way…

POGORELSKY: I hope that Meshiach will come—our redeemer—will come very soon, and all the problems in the world will finish. All the wars and all the illness…

BERG: When everything is good, when all the Jews reunite, when the war is over, the hostages are returned, and when all Jews come together I think that's really gonna be when meshiach comes. It's gonna be the ultimate goal to bring meshiach!

I heard this from religious Jews of all ages…from bearded elderly rabbis, to young female college students, to a Russian Jew enjoying a bottle of Schweppes at the Western Wall.

KATZ: Two Jews, three opinions, as they say…

Katz says he’s not a scholar—and his opinions are his own—but he thinks there are a couple of things Jews can agree on.

KATZ: Mishiach means the Anointed One, and it means the person who will lead the Jewish people out of exile into a state of independence and rebuild the Third Temple. If someone succeeds in doing these things...there you go. He is the person who is Messiah, and the world goes on.

If anything, he describes a political leader. I ask him if there’s any requirement that the messiah be…sinless.

KATZ: No. Not at all. Not. At. All. …The idea isn't a sinless redemption, it is sort of a natural one. We expect the Messiah to be a person just like you or me. A Jewish person...

He says many Jews believe the messiah doesn’t even have to be righteous…he just has to be a strong leader who accomplishes those political and religious goals.

There’s another religious group living in Jerusalem…though they’re nowhere near as large as orthodox Jews and Muslims…

JOSEPH SHULAM: Before creation, Yeshua was already with God.

Rabbi Joseph Shulam is the founder of Shepherd of Israel.

SHULAM: It is a congregation of people—Jews and non-Jews—who believe that Yeshua is the Messiah and the Son of God and divine.

Messianic Jews say Yeshua was the name of Christ before it was anglicized into Jesus. Shulam leads a congregation of Messianic Jewish believers who continue to observe Jewish holidays and traditions…not because they think those traditions save them … but because they recognize that they’re part of their Jewish heritage and the foundation of the New Testament.

On the eve of the Jewish holiday of Yom Kippur…the Day of Atonement…I attended a special service led by Shulam at a synagogue in Jerusalem. The synagogue was packed…and included IDF reservists carrying AK-style rifles. No recording devices were allowed…but I caught up with Shulam afterward. He said he was frustrated that so many Jews are still searching for a new messiah…when the coming of Yeshua was so precisely foretold in Scripture.

SHULAM: They have, like, blinders on their eyes: they see it, they read it, but they don't perceive it.

He says Yeshua is most particularly described in Isaiah 53. The often-quoted “suffering servant” passage will be used heavily in Jewish liturgy the next morning, on Yom Kippur.

SHULAM: It's so clear. I mean, we're not, we're not talking about Christian literature. We're talking about the Jewish prayer book that the whole Jewish world uses on that Day of Atonement. By His stripes, we are healed…

CHAD HOLLAND: They are longing for Messiah's coming. We're longing for his return. And I think that becomes the difference, right?

Chad Holland is the senior pastor of King of Kings Ministries…a Jerusalem-based congregation of both Jewish and Gentile messianic believers. He says Jews who think the Anointed One is a future political leader…are missing the point. It’s not about independence for Israel. All of mankind—including Israel—needs to be saved.

HOLLAND: And what we mean by “saved” is not saved from Hamas or Hezbollah or Islamic terrorists or whatever—things we certainly want protection from. But when we say saved, we mean saved by the blood of Yeshua. Saved by God into an eternal redemption and welcomed into His family with eternal life.

But what about a third Jewish Temple? Do Christians think it could—or even should—be built? And if it is, should believers in Yeshua worship there? I posed that question to Huckabee…who in addition to being a U.S. ambassador, is also an ordained Southern Baptist minister.

HUCKABEE: Well, that's an interesting question. I don't think I've ever been asked that, and I've been asked pretty much everything. You know, I don't need a temple to worship in. Because the Bible, for me, in the New Testament, says my body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. I would find it very interesting. I might want to visit it. You know, I don't know.

During a visit to the West Bank…I met Saleem Anfous…a Palestinian cab driver and tour guide who also is a professing Christian.

Like many Palestinians, Anfous sees Israeli settlers as occupiers who continue to encroach illegally into Palestinian territory. As a Christian, he says he doesn’t want to see a third Temple.

SALEEM ANFOUS: There's a mosque that exists there, it's been there for 1600 years. Why should I demolish it to build a temple?

He points to how God tore the Temple veil from top-to-bottom after the crucifixion. He says building a Temple of any kind would be a rejection of the New Testament covenant.

ANFOUS: The moment I feel that the focus is on the temple, the focus is going away from the center of it all, which is Christ himself.

Holland of King of Kings says a Third Temple is not something that members of his congregation are longing for, per se. But they believe it’s coming. That’s because of a particular view of End Times prophecy…

HOLLAND: I think many in the Messianic community would expect that. And of course, that comes from passages in the book of Revelation that talk about the coming of the Antichrist and in him setting himself up to rule from God's holy place. And then we see the return of the Messiah, where he overthrows that…

But Holland says the Temple would provide an opportunity for messianic believers to take part in some of the Jewish practices outlined in the Old Testament…

HOLLAND: And I think we'd be excited to worship there, and to have celebration there, to have feast and festivals and holidays there … But what we would not participate in would be things of a sacrificial nature, right? We believe in the book of Hebrews, where the Messiah has died once and for all, a perfect sacrifice

There’s another group who say they view Jesus as the Jewish Messiah: Muslims. And they say they also expect Christ to return to the Holy Land before the end of days.

SWAY: We do believe in the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, and we do believe that he will kill the Antichrist near the Gate of Ludd. In simple terms, that's where the Ben Gurion Airport is today.

Muslims believe Christ will lead alongside the Mahdi—a descendent of Muhammad. But Islamic tradition also says Jesus will marry, have children, and die a natural death. And on the Day of Judgement—when every human being is judged purely by his or her works—they say he will deny that he ever claimed to be the Son of God.

It’s now afternoon…and I’m preparing to ascend the Temple Mount a second time. Rabbi Glick is about to lead the memorial service for Charlie Kirk on the Temple Mount one week after his assassination. Dozens of people—both Jews and Christians—are lining up to be screened by Israeli police before the visit. I ask Gidon Ariel…a practicing Jew…what is driving him to honor Kirk in this way.

GIDON ARIEL: With ALL due respect to Charlie Kirk, the most important thing that we're doing over here is going up to the Temple Mount...

There are many, many more people on this tour than there were in my morning visit and many more police. There are also a handful of journalists here…including outlets like The Jerusalem Post and The Times of Israel. The status quo says professional recording equipment is prohibited on the Temple Mount. But, strangely enough, I and all the other reporters are allowed to record on our smartphones. Before our tour begins…an Israeli police officer sternly warns us of the rules.

Rabbi Glick…tries to keep the mood light-hearted.

GLICK: Meanwhile, he said he’s excited that you’re all here. [LAUGHTER] And he said, “When are we already building the Temple?” [LAUGHTER] And he says his heart is SO moved …

Moments later…we are walking through the eastern side of the Temple Mount courtyard…surrounded by police. During my earlier visit that morning with Katz, our group was quiet and subdued. Rabbi Glick was…not.

GLICK: Please join me because if you don’t sing with me your punishment is you have to hear me sing…

As we cross through the eastern side…which police have again cleared of Muslims…our group sings songs in both Hebrew and English…and reads Old Testament scripture…particularly Psalms of ascent.

GLICK: One thing I ask of Hashem—that is what I seek—that I may dwell in the house of Hashem all the days of my life. To behold the pleasantness of Hashem and to visit His temple...for he shall conceal me in his tabernacle…

Katz says that the first time he ascended the Temple Mount, sometime around 2017, Muslim worshippers weren’t welcoming.

KATZ: It was a very, very humiliating experience. You had people screaming profanities at you. The police wouldn't allow us to pray or stop or meditate or even feel where we are. We were just shoved on—move, move.

These days it’s a much different story. Israeli police have loosened the restrictions…and many, many more Jews are coming to pray. In 2009, just over 5,600 Jews visited the site, according to The Jerusalem Post. In 2025…a record-breaking 54,000 made the trip.

Katz says all this may offend Muslims, but it’s not going to change anytime soon.

KATZ: At the end of the day, they're not happy that we're here. But part of it is that they're learning to live with it. You have to learn to live with the fact that the Jewish people are returning to their land. Returning to their holy sites. Returning to their holy mountain. The place that was, according to Isaiah, the house of prayer for all nations. All nations includes Jews too! I know that's surprising.

The visit ends…with Rabbi Glick and others standing below the Dome of the Rock…again…with police blocking their way. They stop to take pictures…and then to sing a familiar song: Hatikvah, or “The Hope”...Israel’s national anthem.

SWAY: Usually they leave like clapping and dancing and literally, it's a political statement. It is obvious that it is a political statement. And we don't appreciate this dance. And you know, all this, all these things that they do in violation with historical status quo.

Two days before I came home from my reporting trip to Israel…I witnessed an unforgettable sight. I stood in a crowd of tens of thousands in Hostages Square in Tel Aviv…as the terror group Hamas finally released the last of the living hostages taken in the October 7th attacks.

SOUND: [Cheering in Hostages Square]

Months later… in January…The Times of Israel reported that for the first time…Israeli police began allowing Jewish worshippers to take printed prayers onto the Temple Mount.

Then another major development…in late February, the U.S. war with Iran began. Katz…an IDF reservist…was called into duty. Portions of his interviews were conducted online…with Katz speaking from an undisclosed location.

KATZ: So I was called up as well, and that obviously throws a monkey wrench into everything that I was ever planning on doing.

On March 16…the IDF says debris from an Iranian missile landed inside the Temple Mount compound…endangering Jewish, Christian, and Islamic holy sites. None were damaged.

And just a few weeks ago…Katz told me that his organization… Beyadenu … launched regular weekly English-speaking tours of the Temple Mount.

Meanwhile…Abu Sway continues to caution against further loosening of the status quo. And he warns Jews and Christians not to tamper with the Dome of the Rock.

SWAY: Sometimes people think that you can hasten the return of Jesus Christ. He is going to return in due time, okay?

And as the…title dispute…over those 35 acres in Jerusalem continues…Christians like Ware…will continue to call everyone—Jews, Gentiles, and Muslims—to the One who was crucified and rose again in the same holy city some 2,000 years ago.

WARE: All have sinned. Both Jews and Greeks are all under sin, but also both Jews and Greeks can be saved through only one way, and that is through faith in Christ.

SILLARS: Travis Kircher wrote and reported this story from Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and the West Bank. And I produced it.

If you enjoyed our program, please do share it with someone. And don’t forget to rate and review us on your podcast app.

I’m Les Sillars. Thanks for listening. We’ll see you next time.

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